Beaware of same turn playing!

A place to discuss anything related to Art of War
User avatar
Whitebalance
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:11 am
Location: Estonia

Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby Whitebalance » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:36 am

In the game 196. Interesting thing happened as i and pkyha were playing at the same time.

Before I had not thought about the turns in phases.

This could be very interesting strategic twist.

1) Ability to attack 2 turns straight, so that enemy hasn't moved.
2) Attacking same time as he is attacking so that he has not deployed reinforcements.
3) Giving reinforcements to an ally as he is attacking somebody.

Has anybody intentionally used this phase possible advantage?
Wars teach us not to love our enemies, but to hate our allies.
W. L. George


User avatar
e_i_pi
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 pm

Re: Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby e_i_pi » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:01 am

Whitebalance wrote:I1) Ability to attack 2 turns straight, so that enemy hasn't moved.

Not possible since I introduced a start turn delay. If every player in a game takes their turn in the same phase (due to other players being eliminated for example), then the last player to end their turn in a round has to wait 1 hour in 24 hour games, and 30 seconds in 5 minute games, before they can take their turn again. See this implemented suggestion
2) Attacking same time as he is attacking so that he has not deployed reinforcements.

When a player takes their turn, it locks the game in the database so that data corruption can't occur. The worst that will happen is that you get a screen notification saying the attacking/defending line-ups have changed, or that the battle type is no longer available. I was very mindful of this when designing the new code base.
3) Giving reinforcements to an ally as he is attacking somebody.

Entirely possible, and a feasible strategy when you and your teammate are playing at the same time. This sort of thing will become more relevant in 5 minute games when they are made available.

User avatar
Whitebalance
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:11 am
Location: Estonia

Re: Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby Whitebalance » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:41 am

1) Does the delay occur from the start of the phase or the start of the other player playing?

2) I could see as the other player was taking territories and not the time he was attacking. Usually you attack and then deploy defensive lines up again. When he attacks you he leaves a line behind weakly defended where you can easily hit him. If he is attacking or you are attacking then the engine could say that things have changed.

3) I think there should be a option if this kind of same phase playing is possible or not. 5 min games

Actually I didn't got good answers and probably if get the chance try these things myself.
Wars teach us not to love our enemies, but to hate our allies.
W. L. George

User avatar
e_i_pi
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 pm

Re: Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby e_i_pi » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:06 am

Whitebalance wrote:1) Does the delay occur from the start of the phase or the start of the other player playing?

At the start of the phase. That's the only way I could think of that would be fair. It gives a chance for the other player to take their turn first, but does not rely on that happening. FYI, you get an email when your turn is ready to take if it gets delayed.

2) I could see as the other player was taking territories and not the time he was attacking. Usually you attack and then deploy defensive lines up again. When he attacks you he leaves a line behind weakly defended where you can easily hit him. If he is attacking or you are attacking then the engine could say that things have changed.

If he leaves behing weak defences, that is by choice. When you attack a territory and capture the territory, a popup comes up to move troops. Did you notice that the attacking troops that won the battle are already in the territory, and the "move troops" popup is for additional troops? That functionality is called "queued actions", and allows the game engine to force players into a chain of actions. A lot of testing was done on this functionality to ensure it works perfectly. Anyway, back to the point, players are not obliged to move any additional troops after capturing a territory. If they leave behind undefended territories, it is because they chose to move all their troops during the capture territory action.

3) I think there should be a option if this kind of same phase playing is possible or not. 5 min games

I don't think a 30 second delay in 5 minute games is that bad. It could be reduced to say 15 seconds to make the turnaround quicker I suppose. I'd rather have it forcefully in place rather than optional. When I played at Conquer Club, there were massive exploits around this. Before it came into play, you could take turns back to back. After it came into play you had to wait for the other player to start their turn. In 5 minute 1v1 games, the other player would exploit the situation by waiting until the last 10 seconds to take their move, then start their turn and break the opponents bonus, leaving them no recourse. I believe if you missed your turn you would also have to wait next turn, so it was possible to completely screw your opponent by running down the timer every turn. I won't tolerate that sort of crap here, and the best way to avoid it from happening is to hard code rules that prevent it.

Actually I didn't got good answers and probably if get the chance try these things myself.

Ask questions, I'm happy to answer them. All the forum posts stick around forever, someone might search for this thread in the future and get some valuable information from it. Feel free to ask anything you want to know about, any time.

ultrasplot
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby ultrasplot » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Yes, I try to go last in my phase to take advantage of this...

Also, I have an issue with territory bonuses being generated at the start of each round, instead of phase. This gives the player in the last phase a massive advantage, as it allows him to walk around the board eating everyone's 1s / weakly defended territories to give himself a large amount of gold next turn.

User avatar
e_i_pi
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 pm

Re: Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby e_i_pi » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:55 pm

You're dead right ultrasplot, there is a slight exploit there. I'm still trying to nut out the best way to tackle this. I have various use cases mapped out, but it's a tough problem to solve, as the start of the game should have a different algorithm to the start of any turn after the 2nd.

ultrasplot
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Beaware of same turn playing!

Postby ultrasplot » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:35 pm

To be honest, on Mdieval Europe this should not be an issue at all, since everyone starts with one territory. Same goes for the new Aegean Sea map (3 terr, does not affect bonus) What remains is World (Tribes), World (Classic), South America, and USA. tbh, this is easily solved by generating income the way it is now for the first two turns, and then moving on to generating per phase, just like region bonuses.


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest