Medieval Europe v3 Discussion Thread

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e_i_pi
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Medieval Europe v3 Discussion Thread

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Hi all,

Along with changes to the Medieval Era, there will be changes to the Medieval Europe Factional Domination scenario.

There's a fair amount of imbalance to the strength of Empires and Factions, in fact v2 seemed to cause more imabalnce than resolution. Some areas of the map are better, others are way worse. I've measured the strength of each empire in two ways - how often they win, and how much income they generate in the first 10 rounds. This gives me an indicator I can use to determine which empires are too powerful or weak, and whether they need more/less offensive/defensive troops. Below are the proposed changes to empires and the map to help bring balance back into the game.

Some terminology to help you understand the below data:
OLD - v2 of Medieval Era Factional Domination
NEW - v3 of Medieval Era Factional Domination, i.e. the proposed changes
FACTION - A playable faction in the scenario
EMPIRE - A playable empire in the scenario
**/DSP - A disparity measure. Should ideally range between -5 and +5 to achieve fair game balance
IN/DSP - Income Disparity: a measure of how much income an empire gets in the first 10 rounds on average. Scale ranges from -24 to +43. Used to determine the types of troops to add/remove
WR/DSP - Win Rate Disparity: a measure of how often an empire wins weighted against how often they should win. Scale ranges from -23 to +20. Used only to contribute to Overall Disparity
OA/DSP - Overall Disparity: An average of the Income Disparity and Win Rate Disparity. Scales range between -23 and +28. Used to measure the number of troops to add/remove
Proposed changes - A list of proposed troop changes for v3. If the change does not indicate a territory, then the change applies to the starting territory


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e_i_pi
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Medieval Europe v3 BYZANTINE CHURCH

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:43 pm

BYZANTINE CHURCH
The Byzantine Church is slightly disadvantaged, with Kingdom of Croatia being the only empire with a positive disparity.
Of all the Byzantine empires, Croatia has the best starting position, and Greece the worst.
The disadvantage for the faction is largely due to the number of forts in south-east Europe, so three empires in that area now start with siege engines to address that issue.

Bulgarian Empire

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -6
WR/DSP: -4
OA/DSP: -5

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, -1 fort

Byzantine Empire

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -9
WR/DSP: -10
OA/DSP: -9

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, -2 infantry

Byzantine Greece

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -13
WR/DSP: -15
OA/DSP: -14

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, +1 cavalry, -1 navy, -1 infantry

Kingdom of Croatia

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +4
WR/DSP: -11
OA/DSP: -3

Proposed changes:
  • +1 fort, -1 infantry
  • Serbia: -1 navy

Kingdom of Hungary

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -11
WR/DSP: -13
OA/DSP: -12

Proposed changes:
  • +2 cavalry, -2 infantry

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e_i_pi
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Medieval Europe v3 CELTIC KINGDOMS

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:44 pm

CELTIC KINGDOMS
Celtic Kingdoms are well balanced as a faction, but empires individually are wildly imbalanced.
Brittany and Alba have good starting positions, and Ireland, England and Leon have bad starting positions.
The imbalance is addressed primarily with the introduction of more cavalry and removal of some navy, though England also gets a siege engine to assist.

Duchy of Brittany

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +15
WR/DSP: -2
OA/DSP: +6

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -1 navy, -2 infantry

High Kingdom of Ireland

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -10
WR/DSP: -13
OA/DSP: -11

Proposed changes:
  • +2 cavalry, -1 navy

Kingdom of Alba

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +13
WR/DSP: +8
OA/DSP: +10

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -2 navy
  • Orkney and Shetland: +1 navy, -1 fort

Kingdom of England

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -13
WR/DSP: +3
OA/DSP: -5

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, -1 fort

Kingdom of Leon

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -12
WR/DSP: -9
OA/DSP: -10

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry

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e_i_pi
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Medieval Europe v3 EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:44 pm

EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH
Eastern Orthodox Church are well balanced as a faction, but only Poland is well balanced.
Volga Bulgaria and Old Prussia have good starting positions, and Kiev and Novgorod have bad starting positions.
Both Kiev and Novgorod are given more offensive troops to address the imbalance, Volga Bulgaria loses it's cavalry to force it into a slower start, and there are several changes for Old Prussia to address severe imbalance.

Kievan Rus

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -11
WR/DSP:  0
OA/DSP: -5

Proposed changes:
  • +2 infantry, +1 cavalry, -1 navy

Kingdom of Poland

Code: Select all

IN/DSP:  0
WR/DSP: +7
OA/DSP: +3

Proposed changes:
  • -1 infantry

Kingdom of Volga Bulgaria

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +17
WR/DSP: +2
OA/DSP: +9

Proposed changes:
  • -1 cavalry

Old Prussia

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -2
WR/DSP: +20
OA/DSP: +9

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -1 infatry, -1 navy
  • Prussia +1 infantry
  • Esthonia +1 infantry

Republic of Novgorod

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -11
WR/DSP: +2
OA/DSP: -4

Proposed changes:
  • +2 infantry, +1 fort, -2 navy

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Medieval Europe v3 ISLAM

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:44 pm

ISLAM
Islam is severely imbalanced, with only Fatimid Caliphate showing any signs of balance.
Seljuk Empire, Abbasaid Caliphate and Tulunid Dynasty are the most (positively) imbalanced empires in the game, requiring serious attention.
The main issue with imbalance in this area is that the empires start with too many troops, and the neutrals don't start with enough. There are also far too many navy in the area, allowing the faction to easily up it's territory count, and protect itself by bulking down on the Cilician Sea. The fact that this faction doesn't have to defend southern or eastern borders further compounds the problem.

Abbasid Caliphate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +25
WR/DSP: +20
OA/DSP: +22

Proposed changes:
  • +1 infantry, -1 cavalry
  • Mosul +1 infantry
  • Iraq +1 infantry
  • Ray +1 cavalry

Fatimid Caliphate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -2
WR/DSP: +6
OA/DSP: +2

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -1 infantry, -1 navy

Fatimid Hejaz

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +13
WR/DSP: +13
OA/DSP: +13

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -4 infantry, -1 navy

Seljuk Empire

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +43
WR/DSP: +13
OA/DSP: +28

Proposed changes:
  • +1 infantry, -1 cavalry
  • Antioch +2 infantry
  • Jerusalem +2 infantry
  • Tripoli +2 infantry

Tulunid Caliphate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +35
WR/DSP: +20
OA/DSP: +27

Proposed changes:
  • +1 fort, -1 infantry, -1 cavalry, -1 navy
  • Alexandria -1 navy
  • Damietta -1 navy

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e_i_pi
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Medieval Europe v3 MOORS

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:45 pm

MOORS
Moors are very slightly disadvantaged, with very good balance across the empires.
The only exception to this is Emirate of Corsica and Sardinia, which has one of the worst starting positions in the game.
Corsica and Sardinia are given a far easier start, and some minor changes to offensive/defensive profiles are made to Almoravid and Zenatan Caliphate.

Almoravid Dynasty

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +9
WR/DSP: -8
OA/DSP:  0

Proposed changes:
  • +1 fort, -1 infantry, -1 cavalry

Caliphate of Cordoba

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +9
WR/DSP:  0
OA/DSP: +4

Proposed changes:
  • al-Mawsat -1 navy

Emirate of Sardinia and Corsica

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -20
WR/DSP: -12
OA/DSP: -16

Proposed changes:
  • +1 infantry, +1 cavalry, +1 navy, -1 fort
  • Corsica -1 navy

Emirate of Sicily

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -7
WR/DSP: -4
OA/DSP: -5

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, -1 infantry, -1 navy

Zenatan Caliphate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +7
WR/DSP: -8
OA/DSP:  0

Proposed changes:
  • +1 fort, -1 infatry, -1 cavalry

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Medieval Europe v3 ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:45 pm

ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
RCC are severely disadvantaged, being the hardest faction on the map, with a great deal of imbalance to all empires except Rome.
Holy Roman Empire is the most difficult starting position in the game, and even the best statring positions of Aquitaine and Rome can only muster poor performance.
As with south-east Europe, western Europe has a lot of forts, so siege engines have been added to starting line-ups. There is also a small addition of cavalry to assist with expansion.

Domaine Royal

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -14
WR/DSP: -14
OA/DSP: -14

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, -1 cavalry
  • Flanders +1 navy

Duchy of Aquitaine

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -1
WR/DSP: -17
OA/DSP: -9

Proposed changes:
  • +2 infantry, +1 fort, -1 cavalry

Duchy of Burgundy

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -7
WR/DSP: -16
OA/DSP: -11

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, +1 cavalry
  • Lower Burgundy +2 infantry, -1 navy

Holy Roman Empire

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -23
WR/DSP: -23
OA/DSP: -23

Proposed changes:
  • +1 siege engine, +1 cavalry, -1 infantry
  • Saxony +2 infantry
  • Lorraine -1 infatry
  • Bohemia -1 infantry

States of the Church

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -7
WR/DSP: -8
OA/DSP: -7

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -1 infantry

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e_i_pi
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Medieval Europe v3 TURKIC HORSE TRIBES

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:45 pm

TURKIC HORSE TRIBES
Turkic Horse Tribes are severely disadvantaged and imbalanced, largely due to the number of cavalry surrounding them in neutral positions, though also the ability for their neighbours to expand more easily.
Bagratuni Dynasty and Ziyarid Dynasty are the best starting positions, being about average across the board, but the other three empires are severely disadvantaged.
The disadvantage is addressed by providing these empires even more cavalry, to help them overcome the large amounts of neutrals.

Bagratuni Dynasty

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +5
WR/DSP: +6
OA/DSP: +5

Proposed changes:
  • +1 fort, -1 cavalry, -2 infantry

Cuman-Kipchak Confederate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -17
WR/DSP: -22
OA/DSP: -19

Proposed changes:
  • +2 cavalry

Khazar Khaganate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -15
WR/DSP: -12
OA/DSP: -13

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, +1 infantry

Pecheneg Khanate

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -24
WR/DSP: +2
OA/DSP: -11

Proposed changes:
  • +3 infantry, -1 cavalry
  • Alania -1 cavalry

Ziyarid Dynasty

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +2
WR/DSP: +4
OA/DSP: +3

Proposed changes:
  • -1 infantry

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e_i_pi
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Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 pm

Medieval Europe v3 VIKINGS

Postby e_i_pi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:46 pm

VIKINGS
The Vikings have an advantage, primarily in their ability to quickly generate bonuses, and send invasion forces before Europe and Britain can establish their own bonuses.
Sami are easily the best starters, being one of the best in the game, and Norway is the worst starter.
The imbalance is addressed by removing a fair amount of the starting navy, replacing it with cavalry, and then adding additional troops to surrounding neutrals.

Icelandic Commonwealth

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +14
WR/DSP: -4
OA/DSP: +5

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -2 navy
  • Snaeland +2 infantry, +1 navy

Kingdom of Denmark

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +3
WR/DSP: +11
OA/DSP: +7

Proposed changes:
  • -1 navy

Kingdom of Norway

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: -7
WR/DSP: -7
OA/DSP: -7

Proposed changes:
  • +2 infantry

Kingdom of Sweden

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +5
WR/DSP: +8
OA/DSP: +6

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -1 infantry, -1 navy
  • Gotaland +1 infantry

Sami People

Code: Select all

IN/DSP: +25
WR/DSP: +11
OA/DSP: +18

Proposed changes:
  • +1 cavalry, -2 navy, -3 infantry
  • Osterland +1 cavalry, -1 navy

Sargon
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:46 am

Re: Medieval Europe v3 Discussion Thread

Postby Sargon » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:08 am

Interesting stats. I've played as Corsica numerous times so this comes as no surprise.

Here are some of my comments (I can't comment on everything though :mrgreen: ):

- I'm not sure why you would take a navy away from Greece. I would leave the navy as is, considering they are surrounded by water and it could be very bad for Greece depending on how well the other faction(s) are doing;

- I agree that Alba's a joke; they have it way too easy. My experiences with England have shown that they have slow starts, but once they get going can have a really good game; as far as Léon is concerned, I would leave it as is; I've actually had good games with them - I would guess they do poorly solo especially against a Moorish or RCC empire;

- Novgorod will always have a problem because there is no direct route from Novgorod to Smolensk; I've won with Novgorod, but it's tough;

- Islam is way overbalanced, I agree. Since the Fatimid Caliphate has no hope of getting a bonus on its second turn currently, the new cavalry is an improvement;

- I like the changes to the Turkic Horse Tribes. I play with them often enough, so this would be a vast improvement;

- I don't understand how Norway's numbers are so low and how they are the worst starter; I have gotten most or the entire zone on the first turn. Then again, three of the five factions of Vikings are very easy starters (Iceland, Denmark, Sami). Like the Fatimid Caliphate, I like Sweden's new cavalry, since there is now the possibility of capturing the entire zone on the first turn.

Just my two cents. :D

Sargon


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